About the "Death Ticker"

**The "Death Ticker" on this blog has changed since this was first posted. The new ticker is aimed at non-believers. Most of the below response is still applicable, however, since the criticism to which I was responding was very poorly constructed.**

I know that not everyone appreciates the so-called "Death Ticker" at the bottom of this blog, which reminds people of the reality that (*gasp*) people die. I also know that not everyone thinks that Christianity is True, or relevant, or even sane.

Recently, I read this criticism about the "Death Ticker" from an atheist who thinks the concept of Hell is silly.

Yes! You're all going to hell- unless you believe exactly what I do! I know the secret, and the rest of you will burn! Only I know the answer- follow me without thinking or suffer for all eternity

Unfortunately, this individual has missed the point of the ticker completely. This is not uncommon for those who criticize Christianity ... most criticisms that I encounter are based on faulty understanding of the Bible or Jesus (not all, but most). In this particular case, the errors are many.

First, the "Death Ticker" is not for non-believers, but for believers. It is a motivator for Christians to go out and share their faith. Regardless of whether you believe Christianity or not, the Bible does clearly states that without having our sins forgiven through repentance and faith in Jesus that our final destination will be in Hell. If you don't believe that, that's fine. But since I believe that, I ought to be telling everyone I can about it. Therefore, the ticker exists as a stark reminder for Christians to put their beliefs into practice, to follow the commandment of our Risen Lord and Savior, and to "go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I [Jesus] have commanded you" (Matthew 28:19-20a). In fact, at the bottom of the ticker the question is asked, "Who have you shared with today?" Notice that the question is not, "What are you gonna do about it, sinner?" The ticker is aimed at professing Christians who are being negligent in their first and foremost duty: the proclamation of the gospel.

Secondly, the encouragement for Christians to go out and share has nothing to do with telling people, "You're all going to hell- unless you believe exactly what I do!" as is erroneously asserted. In fact, you need not believe many of the things that I do. Quite frankly, my beliefs are unimportant to a large degree. There is one central belief that is critical however, and that is concerning the identity of Jesus of Nazareth. Many people believe many different things about him. Some think he is coming soon. Others think he has already returned. Some think they are him. Some think he was a myth. Some think he was a good teacher whose followers made him into something he never claimed to be.

Jesus said, "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins" (John 8:24). We can make up our own version of Jesus if we want to. Meek and mild. Baby Jesus. Just a man. It doesn't matter if you believe everything that I believe about Jesus ... what matters (according to Jesus) was that you believe what He said about himself. The core content of Christian faith that is necessary for salvation is simple:

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve" (1 Corinthians 15:3-5).

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved (Romans 10:9-10).

According to the Apostle Paul and Holy Scripture, these are the basic content of belief that are necessary for salvation. We aren't saved by knowing facts about God, but by putting our trust in this fact that Jesus will save us if we ask him to.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him (John 3:36).

Third, this doosy: "I know the secret, and the rest of you will burn! Only I know the answer ...". This is plainly a false statement. The point of the ticker is that it's not a secret. Many people know and aren't telling people about it. I knew about Jesus before I knew Jesus. The difference is life and death. Secrets are meant to be kept, the gospel is meant to be shared. Christianity is one of the three major monotheistic religions ... clearly, I'm not the only one who knows/believes it.

Fourth, the last statement: "follow me without thinking or suffer for all eternity". Following Christ is not about not thinking (yes, that was a double negative). Following Christ is about being reasonable.

Nearly 2000 years ago a man named Jesus lived, he had followers, he was crucified under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius Caesar, and his earliest followers believed (and were willing to endure torturous deaths for their belief) that they witnessed him alive after his scandalous execution as a criminal. This belief of the earliest followers and the inability of the Romans or Jews to provide proof that these claims were false, which would have been easy if they simply produced the corpse, exploded despite the severest persecution into a worldwide phenomenon. These facts are virtually undisputed by historians, although some like Earl Doherty have attempted to make case that Jesus never lived (not a tenable hypothesis, but it does sell books!).

In order to convince the churches of Galatia, Paul writes 18 years after the supposed crucifixion and resurrection: You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. How could Paul try and convince people 18 years after the supposed events happened, that they had seen something that was mythical? How convinced would you be if I said, "You fool! Who has bewitched you, who yourselves rode upon a unicorn just 18 years ago!" I'm guessing not very .... Similarly, to the Corinthians Paul writes: After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. If you were trying to convince someone that Jesus was raised from the dead, would you tell them that there were hundreds of people still living who could vouch for it if you knew it was a lie? He was providing a way for his claims to be falsified (very scientific method ... go Paul). Yet, belief flourished.

In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead. (Acts 17:30-31, emphasis added)

God gave evidence that Jesus was who he claimed to be. The Apostles pointed to this evidence. I talk to people about this evidence. Yet the same peope who believe without a shadow of a doubt that the universe began 15 billion years ago without the help of a god or outside intelligence (a unscientific thought in itself, since nothing doesn't make something, no matter how much time it has), and are thoroughly convinced that non-living material produced life, that consciousness sprung out of non-consciousness ... these same people don't believe that we can know with certainty that Jesus was raised from the dead, or even if he ever existed when we have historical documentation from intelligent beings, both friendly to the movement and against it (e.g. Jewish and Roman historians). And yet, it is the Christian who is accused of asking people to "follow them without thinking" ... give me a break.

Finally, this criticism completely misses the central tenet of Christianity (thus demonstrating the complete misunderstanding of this particular critic): follow me without thinking.... Following me will get you nowhere. Following Christ is all that matters. He is alive, follow Him.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him. (John 14:6-7)

Good Question!

stronger now said...

Is it "godly" to torture children for not loving you back?

How did god, a supposed "perfect" being, make creatures that are imperfect i.e., not as he would have them?

How is it "good" for this god you believe in to create beings that he knows will end up being tortured forever? Does he not know the future? Does he not care? If he does care why does he make some people that he knows he will send to hell?

"Love me or I'll hurt you" is the biblegods message.

January 18, 2009 8:57 AM

Each part of your question is best addressed on its own, and I will address them in the order that they were posed.

First, Is it "godly" to torture children for not loving you back?

I think the clear and easy response to this question is, by no means! I think it would be very difficult to make the case that the Bible teaches that such action is "godly" which is clearly the implication of the question.

Since it seems to me that Stronger Now is making the claim that the Bible does in fact teach such an abhorrent notion, let me point out where I think this blogger has gone astray from biblical truth. My assumptions are that Stronger Now believes both of the following statements to be true and biblical teachings: 1) We are all God's children; and 2) God tortures people who don't love Him back. If both of these statements are true, then it would seem that God does torture His children for not returning His love.

In reality, neither of these premises are taught in the Bible. First, 1) We are all God's children. This premise is a very popular opinion ... but it is by no means biblical. Consider these passages:

Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. Romans 8:23

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26

Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God. Galatians 4:7

The language of "adoption" and becoming sons "through faith" and no longer being a slave but becoming a "son" do not make any sense at all if the Bible teaches that we are all God's children. No one adopts their own kids. You adopt kids that are not your own previously. If we have not accepted Jesus Christ as Savior, then we are not God's children but His slaves.

Now consider the words of Jesus:

"Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come immediately and sit down to eat'? But will he not say to him, 'Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink'?He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he? So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'" Luke 17:7-10

As slaves of God, we are commanded to obey the 10 commandments. Jesus summed up all of the law and the prophets in these two commandments: You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and the second is like it; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus says in the above Scripture that after we have done these two things (which we all fail at daily), that our response shouldn't be "now give me my reward!" but instead should be "I am an unworthy slave, I have done only that which I ought to have done."

Quite simply, God does not "torture His children for not loving Him back." He punishes criminal slaves who disobey His righteous commandments in rebellion against Him. God's children-those whom He has adopted into His family through their faith in Jesus-are heirs to the throne and are not treated as slaves, but are given their inheritance as is proper for children to receive.

And the reason we fail to love our neighbor as ourself (afterall, who wants to be lied to, or stolen from, or talked negatively about, or laughed at, or ignored, or dishonored ... yet we do these things to other people) is a direct result of our failure to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. If we did love Him this way, then we would recognize the amazing value that each human has as a being created by Him, and would afford them the respect and honor they deserve. No one is cast into Hell just for failing to love God. They are cast into Hell for their myriad of sins, only part of which is their failure to love God in the above described way.

Next, How did god, a supposed "perfect" being, make creatures that are imperfect i.e., not as he would have them?

The answer to this question seems to be that God did create humans exactly as He would have them ... and that their imperfection was part of the plan. This follows for two reasons. First, there exists only one Perfect Being: God. To make other perfect Beings would be to create copies of God. But God does not change and He is eternal. Therefore, it would be impossible to "create" a perfect Being since the only perfect Being is uncreated.

However, God did make us "perfect" as He wanted us. Part of His design included freedom since He desires to have a relationship with us. He could have created humans as mindless beings that only stroked His ego ... but He opted for qualitatively better beings who could freely choose to accept or decline His invitation for relationship. True freedom results in there being some who will make an unwise choice. This poor choice does not mean that God made a mistake in creating free agents...it just means those free agents made a mistake in their use of their gift.

In fact, it seems to me that God's decision to make free moral agents was His greatest display of power. He could force us to love Him, but He set us free. I'm not sure that I would have been so generous if I were God ... fortunately, I'm not!

Third, How is it "good" for this god you believe in to create beings that he knows will end up being tortured forever? Does he not know the future? Does he not care? If he does care why does he make some people that he knows he will send to hell?

This question has a good amount of overlap with the prior question, namely that it is qualitatively better for God to create free moral agents and have some of them choose poorly (thus, ending up in Hell) than it is for God to create not-free beings who are forced to worship Him in heaven. There can be no relationship in the second scenario. The proof that God does know the future and of His great care is that He has declared the judgment prior to executing it, and He has provided sufficient means for all who will to accept the free gift of salvation that is available to all persons through Jesus the Christ.

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.... He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:16-18, 36

I've read your profile Stronger Now, and although that only gives me very little knowledge of who you are, I believe you when you say that you are an atheist. Based on the knowledge that you have of Scripture I can't make it any clearer to you that if you go to Hell it will not be because God wanted you to go there (after all, He sent His Son for you), but because of your willful refusal to accept His gift of salvation and the opportunity to become a child of God. If you choose to die in your sins without the Savior, that's your choice. But God cannot be blamed for your final destination.

And when you behold Him in all His glory and realize that you could have spent eternity with Him ... it's no surprise that your eternity away from Him could be described as being full of "weeping and gnashing of teeth." The amazing truth is this: I know that I don't deserve Heaven ... I'm not perfect. Neither are you. Only perfect people deserve Heaven. But God has provided a way for you and me to be adopted into His family and therefore enjoy the full benefits of being an heir. God by no means "tortures His children" and His care for both you and me is immense. If you don't care enough to accept what He's done for you ... well, that's a different matter entirely.

Finally, "Love me or I'll hurt you" is the biblegods message.

This statement is just false.

You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. Romans 5:6-11

The God of the Bible's message is that He's going to love you no matter what. If you decide that you must be damned for your own sins, He'll let you. But he'd rather let you let Him pay for them.

If I've failed to address any of your concerns, please let me know. As always, if you have further questions feel free to leave them in the comments section.

Final Judgment

Then I saw a great white throne and the one who sat on it; the earth and the heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. ~Revelation 20:11-15

This passage is a particularly vivid description of the events on the coming Judgment Day. For many, this is a terrifying scene ... and rightfully so. Being cast into the lake of fire is surely not going to be pleasant. Look carefully at the description of the Judgment and the contrast that is outlined.

First, it says "books" (plural) were opened. Next a "book" (singular) is opened. We find the content of these books as the passage moves on. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books...the "books" contain the deeds of the individuals and are the basis of their judgment. ...and anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire... the "book" is here further described as the "book of life" and it is made clear that this "book" contains names. The dead are judged based on their deeds, and if their name is not in the book of life, they are then cast into the lake of fire.

It's interesting that the text declares that everyone being judged is cast into hell, except for the individuals whose name is written in this "book of life." It's not on the basis of deeds that they are spared, but on the contrary, it's on the basis of deeds that they are damned. Whoever has their name written in the "book of life" is spared in spite of their damnable deeds.

Many attempt to paint the God of the Bible as some sort of monster ... but if He didn't have a "book of life" then all would be cast into the lake of fire on Judgment Day. It is only by God's grace that any are saved from this fate. But why only some? Well, Scripture declares God's desire.

The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance. ~ 2 Peter 3:9

God doesn't want you to perish, that's why He made a way for forgiveness and why He has warned you in advance.

"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." ~ Luke 13:3, 5

He has commanded you to repent.

Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent ~ Acts 17:30

The results of unrepentance are clear.

He who believes in Him [Jesus] is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God...He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. ~ John 3:18, 36

The Day of Judgment is rightfully a terrifying thing for any who have not repented and trusted Jesus for their salvation. The good news is:

...if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." ~ Romans 10:9-13

If you've never done this, it's not too late. If you refuse, understand that your sentence is already defined and the result will be your desire...not God's.